Fun_People Archive
30 Jan
Fun_People Updates 1/30/00

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From: Peter Langston <psl>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 100 23:49:39 -0800
To: Fun_People
Precedence: bulk
Subject: Fun_People Updates 1/30/00

X-Lib-of-Cong-ISSN: 1098-7649  -=[ Fun_People ]=-
Fun_People Updates 1/30/00
    Continuing our Updates catch-up... I realize now that the last FPU  
(Fun_People Updates) on 1/27/00 actually contained material from a previous  
FPU (of 5/5/99) so I'm continuing with comments, critiques, complaints,  
compliments, and communiques since May fifth...  All new!!

- Peter
Pete Vance <>
Re: Prof. Jenkins Goes to Washington [8 May 1999]

Peter....Prof. Jenkins didn't mention that those boys, or at least one of
them, was on prozac, or equivilent, and was most likely manic depressive.
The fact that they are not very stable seems to be overlooked in this
current witch hunt.....
From: "Cantor, Steven (I)" <>
Re: Prof. Jenkins Goes to Washington

     thanks so much for posting this article.   i've since checked out jon
katz's articles at, and i commend them to you if you've not
checked them out   - - - i have no idea how many people are listening, but i
was very grateful for some clear thinking on this subject, particularly in
the face of the rampant and proudly ignorant finger-pointing going on in
response to this event.
     thanks again, and hope all is well with you.
From: Karl Juhnke <>
Re: Prof. Jenkins Goes to Washington

I was pleased to read Professor Henry Jenkins' account of his recent trip
to testify in Washington about the social causes of school killings.
Articulate, thoughtful dialogue is what we need, now more than ever in this
time of panic.  Jenkins' account of youth culture and in particular the
gothic subculture are well-considered.  I hope they help deflect attention
from innocuous black trench coats and white face makeup, so that we can
focus on the true culprit.

I don't think we should panic, far from it, but I am convinced there is
something very wrong.  People do not murder people naturally.  The recent
spate of school killings is not normal; these murders are literally inhuman.
We can't simply shrug our shoulders and say "Them's the breaks" every time
another half dozen kids are slaughtered.

I was sorry to hear that David Grossman made some inconsiderate and
ill-informed attacks on the expertise of Professor Jenkins.  I have met
Mr. Grossman in a more congenial setting, and I can vouch that he is both
thoughtful and considerate.  Only in the last few weeks has he begun to
get the national attention he deserves; perhaps he is over-reaching in an
unfamiliar setting, or he himself has been set on edge by the overwhelming
barrage of sniping comments that come with his increased profile.  I do
not know why Mr. Grossman made this mistake, but he is good man with an
important message.

While the tone of the debate has been less than ideal, eventually, I
believe, the truth will out.  The truth is that people do not kill face to
face, unless they are under incredible duress, or they have been trained
to kill.  The evidence for this thesis is very powerful, and is
well-presented in Grossman's book _On Killing_.

I can't do justice to the mass of evidence Grossman presents, but let me
give one example. In the Civil War, approximately 85% of the soldiers did
not fire their guns at opposing soldiers.  We deduce this from the large
number of loaded weapons seized on the battlefield by the victorious armies.
Since it takes 15 times as long to load a weapon as to fire it, we should
expect only a tiny fraction of captured weapons to be loaded and not fired,
but this was not the case.  Most captured weapons were loaded, many loaded
multiple times.  The strong implication is that soldiers would not fire,
and reloaded their loaded weapons in order to appear busy.

In World War II, the U.S. Army became aware of that their soldiers were
not killing.  By the Army's own research, some three quarters if not more
of U.S. soldiers in WWII would not fire their guns at facing enemy soldiers.
They would fire team weapons and they would drop bombs on enemies they
couldn't see, but face to face gun killings were the exception rather than
the rule.

How can we explain the recent school killings in light of the fact that,
from the Civil War though World War II, the large majority of professional
soldiers, under pressure for their officers and peers, fighting for their
country and fighting for their lives, simply could not bring themselves to
kill?  I suggest we look to the Army's own explanation and their own

The U.S. military finally clued in to the natural human reluctance to kill
in time to train better killers for the Vietnam War.  They changed training
methods, and got the numbers to flip around, so that in Vietnam some 80%
of U.S. soldiers were killers.  (This may, incidentally, explain the
increased incidence of post-traumatic stress disorder.)  They trained with
classical conditioning and operant conditioning.

Classical conditioning is to reward good behavior and punish bad behavior,
so that the subject associates pleasure with the conditioned behavior and
pain with the undesirable behavior.  Operant conditioning is to train the
subject to have an immediate response to a given stimulus.  If you do
something enough times, it becomes automatic and you don't think about it.
A target pops up, and you shoot for the head.

It works.  The Army now can produce killers where it used to turn out
soldiers with their inborn resistance to killing intact.  The scary sequel
is that the same methods the Army uses to train killers, we are
inadvertantly using to make killers out of our kids.

The classical conditioning is that violence has become fun.  We go to the
movies, grab a popcorn and a soda, and laugh all through the slaughters in
Pulp Fiction.  We learn to associate violence with a good time.

The operant conditioning is provided by point-and-shoot video games.  Kids
gain the motor skills and superior reflexes needed to kill by playing hours
and hours of these games.  Eventually they don't even have to think; a
target pops up and one shot to the head dispatches it.

Conditioning is especially effective with young children.  We as adults
might be able to draw a meaningful distinction between _Saving Private
Ryan_ and _The Basketball Diaries_, but young children cannot.  Anyone who
lets a six-year old watch either one should be sued for psychic

In the Jonesboro killings, the boy responsible walked into a room and fired
eights shots.  He hit eight targets, three in the upper body, and five in
the head.  THIS IS NOT NATURAL.  People rarely kill at all, much less kill
with the deadly accuracy of professional soldiers, unless they have been

I don't know anything about the boy's social life, or his parents, or what
social pressures led him to kill, although I bet a dollar it didn't have
anything to do with the gothic subculture.  The effect of pop culture would
be more Jenkins' area of expertise than Grossman's.  I do know, however,
that the madness has to stop.  We as nation must end our love affair with
violence, and stop training our youth to be killers.

From: Karl Juhnke <>
Re(2): Prof. Jenkins Goes to Washington
	Factual correction

I wrote my previous letter in a hurry, and got my facts a little wrong in
two places.

1. The killing rate in the Civil War was very low, but the percentage of
soldiers who didn't kill can only be inferred, not calculated.  The
non-firing rate for U.S. soldiers in World War II was eighty to eighty-five
percent, for the Korean war about forty-five percent, and in the Vietnam
War only five to ten percent.

An excerpt from an article by Grossman:

In more modern times, the average firing rate was incredibly low in Civil
War battles. Patty Griffith demonstrates that the killing potential of the
average Civil War regiment was anywhere from five hundred to a thousand
men per minute. The actual killing rate was only one or two men per minute
per regiment (The Battle Tactics of the American Civil War). At the Battle
of Gettysburg, of the 27,000 muskets picked up from the dead and dying
after the battle, 90 percent were loaded. This is an anomaly, because it
took 95 percent of their time to load muskets and only 5 percent to fire.
But even more amazingly, of the thousands of loaded muskets, over half had
multiple loads in the barrel--one with 23 loads in the barrel.

In reality, the average man would load his musket and bring it to his
shoulder, but he could not bring himself to kill. He would be brave, he
would stand shoulder to shoulder, he would do what he was trained to do;
but at the moment of truth, he could not bring himself to pull the trigger.
And so he lowered the weapon and loaded it again. Of those who did fire,
only a tiny percentage fired to hit. The vast majority fired over the
enemy's head.

During World War II, U.S. Army Brig. Gen. S. L. A. Marshall had a team of
researchers study what soldiers did in battle. For the first time in
history, they asked individual soldiers what they did in battle. They
discovered that only 15 to 20 percent of the individual riflemen could
bring themselves to fire at an exposed enemy soldier.

2.  The superior marksmanship (demonstrated by a boy who had never fired
a real pistol before in his life) was in Paducah, not Jonesboro.  I quote

In 1997, in Paducah, Kentucky, 14-year-old Michael Carneal stole a .22
caliber pistol and ammunition from a neighbor's locked garage, brought it
to school and opened fire as a prayer group was breaking up in the school's

He fired eight shots. The FBI says that the average US law enforcement
officer, at a distance of seven yards, hits with fewer than one bullet in
five.  Michael Carneal fired eight shots at a bunch of milling, scrambling,
screaming children. He got eight hits. Five of them were head shots. [Many
video games, Grossman notes, give bonus points for head shots.] Even more
astounding was the kill ratio. Each kid was hit once.  Three were killed;
one was paralyzed for life. Never, to my knowledge, in the annals of law
enforcement or military or even criminal history can we find an equivalent
From: Robert.Reynolds@directory.Reed.EDU (Robert Reynolds)
Re: Prof. Jenkins Goes to Washington

--- You wrote:
I was picked on mercilessly by the rednecks who went to my school and I
spent a lot of time nursing wounds, both emotional and some physical, from
an essentially homophonic environment.
--- end of quote ---

So hard to know what they mean!

(I know it was just a typo, but it was irresistible!)
From: "Laura P.Raymond" <>
Re: Prof. Jenkins Goes to Washington

This was stunning, and thank you so much.

I have two sons, who, for all our efforts to integrate them into the
mainstream (and even as young as they are -- 4 and 9) are likely to be
goths or goth-equivalents when they are in their teens and young adults.
I adore them, and take every chance I can to applaud their successes and
their talents, but they are VERY different.  Both are bright, both are
already diagnosed with manic depression, and my older son has a host of
other neurological problems probably relating to a difficult delivery as

I fear for them.  I fear for all other children like them, who are bright,
who are different, who are sensitive and who are routinely set on by others
for being different even in good ways.  It doesn't have to be a
Columbine-level tragedy...  suicide, joint suicide-murder pacts, drug
addiction, and other antisocial behaviors are very much possibilities if
even loving, supportive and accepting parents aren't enough to overcome
the social difficulties.  You know yourself how rare a teacher like Betty
whatshername is, and I fear my children will never have someone other than
their parents who helps them see a range of possibilities in life and

I also fear for the children who fit in and think that cruelty and mockery
are perfectly acceptable ways of dealing with differences of any type.  A
culture that teaches less tolerance rather than more is eventually doomed
to violence and rebellion, and I think we are in fact beginning to see
that, not just with Columbine and the other school shootings, but with
other kinds of events as well.

Anyway, thank you again for speaking up about asking the right questions,
and not making hysterical decisions based on poor information and knee-jerk,
unthinking hype.


Laura Raymond
From: "Stephen Nelson" <>
Re: QsOTD - Advertising


If one accept Chandler's statement, shouldn't one also accept that a
constant flow of violence in video games, music and other items of popular
culture would likewise debase the human mind??

just a thought.  -  Steve
>"It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a
>constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing. There is more
>than one way to conquer a country."
>  Raymond Chandler
From: Robert.Reynolds@directory.Reed.EDU (Robert Reynolds)
Re: Say WHAT?!

On a refrigerator in the Physics Building basement:

"It's a doggy dog world."

(Tell that to Snoop!)
From: "David F. Farkas" <>
Re: Say WHAT?!

At 11:09 AM 5/11/99 -0700, you wrote:
>X-Lib-of-Cong-ISSN: 1098-7649
>[Dedicated to Greenwich Village's "Chez Stadium" (a restaurant) and my own
> future soul food restaurant/bar: "Chez What?"  - psl]

  Adding to the name game. I used to live in Suffern NY and thought the town
really needed a restaurant called Suffern Succotash.

From: Roger Ferguson <>
Re: Say WHAT?!

I regret to inform you that there is a restaurant in Portland OR called
Chez What.  They serve Burgers etc.  Not a place I could recommend.  It's
on NE Alberta,  which is no longer a negative per se, but in this case
there is more imaginative food a few blocks up the street.
From: "Diane Frauenholz" <>
Re: Say WHAT?!

I couldn't resist adding to the word play - I plan to open a hyper-
trendy, very chic hair salon in which the staff must be seriously
skilled in the art of "one-upmanship".  The store name?  "Too Chez"
=^..^=  df
Re: Things to Remember about Drinking

(And a personal favorite, from "A Shropshire Lad" -jv)

"And malt does more than Milton can,
To justify God's ways to man.
Ale, man, ale's the stuff to drink
For fellows whom it hurts to think."				-A.E. Houseman
From: <>
Re: Say WHAT?!

>[Dedicated to Greenwich Village's "Chez Stadium" (a restaurant) and my own
> future soul food restaurant/bar: "Chez What?"  - psl]

(Not to be confused with the Mexican Soul eatery, "Natcho Mama!", or that
famous kosher sushi bar, "Sosumi."  -jv)
From: Robert.Reynolds@directory.Reed.EDU (Robert Reynolds)
Re: A Runcible Spoon by any other name. . .

--- You wrote:
--- end of quote ---
Sounds more like a beef industry advertising site!
From: Daniel Steinberg <>
Re: A Runcible Spoon by any other name. . .

>Sporks are yet another tool in SATAN'S war on the GOD-FEARING
>followers of our lord Jesus!"

What is all this business about God-Fearing?  Personally, i think that Fear
of God is Satan's most powerful and insidious tool, confusing and warping
the minds of people who ought to be loving God and humanity.  Put that in
your spork and smoke it!
From: Stella Sloop <>
Re: Kibo and AI

At 11:33 -0700 05/12/99, Peter Langston wrote:
>>    The gleaming metallic puppy-sized robot is named AIBO,
>> the Japanese word for partner. The first two letters of the name also
>> refer to "artificial intelligence."

and the future foreseen by Ray Bradbury in his story, "I Sing the Body
Electric" begins...not to mention all those robot stories Asimov cranked

_______________________________________________________________________________From: (Tom Parmenter)
Re: Shel Silverstein goes to Poetry Heaven

Hugh Hefner said, not in a eulogy, before Shel died, that Shel
Silverstein was one of the most enthusiastic participants in the
Playboy Mansion lifestyle.
Re: Help prevent another Littleton in your town!

> whose daughter bought a kit and dyed her hair a purple-orange

Which color would be what, exactly?
From: Kalia Kliban <>
Re: Help prevent another Littleton in your town!

>State Rep. Thomas Kennedy of Brockton said he filed the bill on behalf of
>a constituent whose daughter bought a kit and dyed her hair a purple-orange
>Kennedy told the Middlesex News that he's not trying to restrict youthful
>expression, only prevent children from making bad choices in their

Are there also laws on the books there that prohibit the sale of lime green
plaid polyester golf pants to senior citizens?  What about the sale of
cheap and obvious toupees to middle-aged men?  Or spandex clothing to
anyone over 250 pounds?  Sheesh....

From: "Eric Herrmann" <>
Re: Explanation of Copywrite [sic]

But some critical questions remain.

- Should Jim form a company and go public, who would underwrite Jim Wright's
copyrighted right rite?
- If it is subsequently subpoenaed in england in anger, will the a writ be
written for the underwritten Jim Wright's written copyrighted right rite, by
a Brit in a snit?
- If he memorizes it while eating pumpernickel in the rain, will what Jim
wrote be rote with brot in a coat?
- When Jim dies, an evil liberal left-handed cleric named WIlliam who has
just been robbed might leave the correct work behind and bring Jim's
testament instead, in which case the right Jim Wright's copyrighted right
last rite will be left by Will, a bereft lefty in the sinister left, for a


>> From Mon May 10 14:57:45 1999
>> Subject: Explanation of Copywrite [sic]
>> Reply-To:
>X-Lib-of-Cong-ISSN: 1098-7649
>Forwarded-by: Will Payne <>
>When you write copy you have the right to copyright the copy you write,
>if the copy is right. If however, your copy falls over, you must right
>your copy. If you write religious services you write rite, and have the
>right to copyright the rite you write.
>Very conservative people write right copy, and have the right to
>copyright the right copy they write. A right wing cleric would write
>right rite, and has the right to copyright the right rite he has the
>right to write. His editor has the job of making the right rite copy
>right before the copyright can be right.
>Should Jim Wright decide to write right rite, then Wright would write
>right rite, which Wright has the right to copyright. Duplicating that
>rite would copy Wright right rite, and violate copyright, which Wright
>would have the right to right.
Forwarded-by: <>
From: Pam Heath & David Jensen <>
Re: Drinking lore

And this just in, re the other day's cheers:Robert Benchley, when told
drinking & smoking are "slow poison":"So? Who's in a hurry?"

From: "Shirl Kennedy" <>
Re: Paranoids Rejoice!  Big Brother _Is_ Reading Your Email

I collected a whole bunch of links about this for a project I worked on last
year.  I think most of these are still working...FWIW

Shirl Kennedy
Web Doyenne
City of Clearwater (Florida)

We are not afraid to entrust the American people
with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies,
and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid
to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an
open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
     -- John F. Kennedy
Echelon:  Exposing the Global Surveillance System
Counter Intelligence:  Dirty Work:  Project Echelon
The Spotlight:  How Government Spies on You
STOA Interim Study
Executive Summary
September 1998
Updated Executive Summary prepared as a background document for the
September 1998 part-session
Echelon:  Exposing the Global Surveillance System
Covert Action Quarterly:  Exposing the Global Surveillance System
Secret Power:  New Zealand's Role in the International Spy Network
Chapter Two: Hooked up to the spy network: The UKUSA system
Electronic Telegraph:  Spies Like Us
The Village Voice:  Features:  Listening In
I Spy With My Little Eye In The Sky
STOA Report:  Interception Capabilities 2000
Canada a Key Snooper in Spy Network
CSS Internet News
Covenant Syndicate:
ECHELON: America's Spy in the Sky
Codename:  Echelon
The Global Surveillance System
Paul Wolfe's Echelon Links
BBC News:  Despatches:  Big Brother Is Watching
European Study Paints a Chilling Portrait of Technology's Uses. "Echelon"
listens to us all?
By Bruno Giussani
[New York Times] (2.24.98)
From: Jesse Tayler <>
Re: Bill Gates' Baby '99

> I see that Bill and Melinda Gates had an 8 lb 12 oz baby boy today.
> Just a thought: if it had been Linus Torvald's baby, it would only have had
> to weigh 4 lbs.

So what about Steve Job's baby? Tangerine - or Strawberry?

From: "William J. Larson" <>
Re: Monkey Tail

I think its called that in several languages including German.

Bill Larson
Geneva, Switzerland
From: Joel Howard Rosner <>
Re: May the Underpants Be with You. . .

This is actually funnier with the "original" version,
where it is just "pants", not "underpants."

From: "Terwilliger, James, Mr, AFDPO/PPPF" <>
Re: A campsite for the group's full-moon assemblies...

Isn't this the same Bob Barr that is affiliated with the descendent group of
the Klu Klux Klan?  Isn't this the same Bob Barr who virulently opposes
abortions for anyone other than his own wife?

Jim T
From: "" <>
Re: DeForest Kelley

This is a pretty good page on DeForest Kelley.
Among other things, he was in about 100 westerns on film and TV before he
made it to Star Trek
From: "Albert Lu" <>
Re: The Patron Saint of ... the Internet?

Dear Peter,

The following news actually sent a chill down me spine.

If you have read the sci-fi series "Hyperion" by Dan Simmons up to its
endings, the Hyperion series is about computer viruses turning haywired,
evolve and developed consciousness, i.e. AIs, and taking on the humankind
by developing a parasite, in the form of a cross. The cross allow
resurrection of its carrier, while the carrier unknowingly become parts of
the neurons of the AIs' "brains", a-la "The Matrix".

The Vatican of the imaginery future was ruled by a bunch of bad guys who
work secretly with/for the parasitic AIs (which is the enemies of the
human), headed by a Pope who "discovered" the parasites, and mankind was
ruled by the military engine (!) of the church, where military ranking is
merged with the church "ranking", i.e. a captain is also a father, thus
the rank "father-captain"...

A galactic dictatorship based on Christianity.

The military wing of the church is equipped with starships which can travel
at speed faster than light, but at the expenses of killing off all its crew
during flight. So every faster than light flight means death and
resurrection for its crew.

And guess what the church named three of their newest and most desctructive
starship? Raphael, Gabriel and Michael.

Hope this is interesting to you. You can check out

if you are curious about this great sci-fi series, which is comparable to
Frank Herbert's classic Dune in scope.

Cheers... Albert.

From: Jack Kolb <>
Re: Representative Government - A Correspondence

I assume you know that this was published in Harper's Magazine (May issue,
pp. 19-22).  I suppose they won't object to its being forwarded, but they
might appreciate an acknowledgement.  Cheers, Jack.

Jack Kolb
Dept. of English, UCLA
From: Jim Gillogly <>
Re: Greetings from Scopet Newni, Not Renault of Alleve

Hi, Peter -- that was quite cute.  I think the last bit needs work, though!

	Jojam Sacho, Ylg Prinz of RiteAid Generic Aspirin

(Yes, our first car was a 2-cylinder Prinz, about the size of my desk.)
From: "Elmore, Kevin, Quintiles" <>
Re: Greetings from Scopet Newni, Not Renault of Alleve

I've seen a lot of name generators for Star Wars.  Some people obviously
aren't content with the ones they heard, so they made up their own variants.
Now, if I go out on the Net and harvest all these possible ways to generate
my Star Wars name, I would have 14 names, all of which require me to summon
vast amounts of mucus from the back of my throat.

I'm adding another variant.  Hopefully, this will thin out the population
a bit, too.

1.  Use the first three letters of your middle name.
2.  Mix a nice glass of milk, warm orange juice, and Crisco.  Drink it.
Add the second sound you make from doing such a stupid thing.
3.  Use the first two letters of the last name of the last person whom you
slept with (if this is not known or impossible because you're a Trekkie,
use an apostrophe).
4.  Do not go to the bathroom for 5 hours.  When you finally do go, add
the third sound that you make when you finally relieve your bladder of 2000
pounds of pressure.
5.  Add the first syllable of the first name of the person you hate the
most.  Precede it with the syllable, "kil."
6.  Hit yourself on the head with a hammer.  Add the color you first see
when your vision recovers.
7.  Spit out your window.  Add the name of the object that receives the
most spit.
8.  If you think this is a great way to generate a Star Wars name, repeat
step 6.

That's my solution, and I'm sticking with it.

Kevin Elmore
From: Jason Moore <>
Re: Hot Stuff (Guatamalan Insanity Peppers)

for more information, goto:
From: Karen DeFrank <>
Re: cheefulness?

I have tried in my time to be a philosopher; but, I don't know how,
cheefulness was always breaking in.
                                        - Oliver Edwards

Who is cheefulness?  Shouldn't you have capitalized his name?
And what was his punishment for always breaking in?  You know, that lady
who kept breaking in to David Letterman's house had a serious problem
with depression.  Maybe cheefulness needs some Prozac....

Karen DeFrank
Reagen Ward <>
Re: Life Sized Satanic Doll Serves As Masturbation Toy

> X-Lib-of-Cong-ISSN: 1098-7649
> X-
> Forwarded-by: Eric <>
> Forwarded-by: Karen Greene
> Forwarded-by: Jim McKeighen <jim@MIS.NET>
> Forwarded-by: Matt Patrick <>
> They're serious!)

Actually, if you go to, it plainly calls itself a parody.

From: "Tom Duff" <>
Re: Life Sized Satanic Doll Serves As Masturbation Toy

> They're serious!)

Well, no.  They're not, as you can see if you look at

	The Landover Baptist Church is a complete work of fiction.
	Any resemblance to persons, places or things is purely coincidental.
From: Stonewall Ballard <>
Re: Life Sized Satanic Doll Serves As Masturbation Toy

Nope. This is a parody. See


>About Us:
>After only three years on the internet, Landover Baptist has fast
>become one of the most popular parodies ever made. Exposing the
>rough underbelly of American Christianity's more legalistic side,
>with wit and intellect, Landover has claimed a worldwide viewership
>of over 1.5 million, with 50,000 plus hits a week, and 50 certified
>internet fan clubs on Atheist and intellectual Christian sites and
>colleges around the globe. Landover Baptist has been called by some
>experts, "a litmus test of human behavior," in regard to the
>interactive response generated by the site.
>The Landover Baptist Church is a complete work of fiction. Any
>resemblance to persons, places or things is purely coincidental

   - Stoney
Re: Life Sized Satanic Doll Serves As Masturbation Toy

>[They'r serious!]

Or maybe they are satirists.


    Church members recall the lulling voice, the monotone cadence of speech,
and some passage from Isaiah, but that is all they remember. For the first
time in the history of our church, an entire congregation has been put to
sleep by a sermon. Parishioners insist that it was not the length of the
sermon that did it, most of the congregation was out cold in the first 15
minutes. "It was something about his voice," many insisted.  "It was like
listening to one of those metronomes, only it had a voice instead of a

Rev. Charles T. Wilmington III was approved by a church sub-committee during
Pastoral absentia. Pastor Smith was vacationing in Vancouver when he got
the call. "That's fine," he assured, "you do what you think is best." Rev.
Wilmington, an 85 year old ex-riverboat gambler, moonshiner, Klansman, card
shark, truck driver, circus clown, sheriff, alcoholic, tobacco farmer turned
born again Christian, passed all the criteria to take the pulpit on Sunday
morning. Everything about the man was hearsay, however. No one had  heard
the gentleman preach before. "And no one is ever going to hear him preach
again," Pastor Smith announced, "at least not at this church."

Church Doctor, Rev. Jonathan Edwards, took Pastor Wilmington aside in
Fellowship Hall, after the service. He concluded that Wilmington was clearly
not of sound mind. Dr. Edwards disclosed that Wilmington thought he was
under arrest, and insisted on finding a $10.00 table."

"Never again." Pastor Ebeneezer Smith announced to the subcommittee in
charge of booking visiting evangelists. "Never again, will I let you people
make any decisions while I am away! I don't care if I am walking the hill
toward Golgotha! This is not going to happen again! Thank the Lord Jesus
he wasn't preaching in the main sanctuary!"

   Copyright 1999/C.Harper .
Re: Life Sized Satanic Doll Serves As Masturbation Toy

I do not think this is serious!  I would check out the web site right now,
but I can't, because of something very corrupt in my aol software (I can get
email though) (still for $5/mo.).  I'll check it out next week at work.

My reasons: 1--the word "hiney."
    2--the name "Tawney"
    3--the name "Ebeneezer"
George Osner <>
Re: Life Sized Satanic Doll Serves As Masturbation Toy

Sorry peter, no, they're not--this is clearly a parody site--check the home

Kevin Johnsrude <>
Re: Life Sized Satanic Doll Serves As Masturbation Toy

Sorry, Peter, you got fooled!  The Landover Baptist Church website is a
parody site! A funny one, too!  Gotcha! ;-)

From: Nat Howard <>
Re: Life Sized Satanic Doll Serves As Masturbation Toy

You know, I thought *nothing* could make me like Jar Jar.
I was wrong.  Now I smile whenever I think about him.

Keep up the good work...
From: Martin Jara <>
Re: Some Background on the Original Word Processor -- Pencils

Hey Peter,

I could be wrong about this but I believe there is a further interesting
connection to the pencil and a beloved literary figure in the US. I recall
reading that Henry David Thoreau's family was somehow associated with the
invention of the wooden pencil we know today. They seemed to be able to
figure out how to get the graphite inside the wooden holder. I believe the
small income HDT received was either a royalty or inheritance from the
invention. Just think, there might not have been On Walden Pond had it not
been for the pencil; well, ok, perhaps a Bic then.

Marty, HHHH
From: "Bart N. Locanthi" <>
Re: Germans and Jazz (and a comment)

> > "... I've been directing bands for 30 years and I've never heard of
> > anyone dying while playing a German march."

i think the czechs, the poles, the french, the dutch, etc etc might have
different opinions on that subject.
From: Mark Seiden <>
Re: STFM - a fin de siecle acronym?

then there's


(Search the Web), a response which has mostly replaced RTFM.
From: mo@UU.NET (Mike O'Dell)
Re: word prefix phone numbers.....

uh, i remember when my home town got dial service

From: "Stephen Nelson (personal)" <>
Re: Older Than Dirt?  (Very Scientific)

a "perfect" 25!!!

I could also add:

1.  free drinking glasses with gasoline fill-up
2.  slide rules and log tables
3.  television test patterns
4.  78 rpm records
5.  Princess telephones
6.  Sky King
7.  Nehi soda
8.  TV trays
9.  radios that were AM only
10. Youth sports leagues that emphasized fun over winning, that kicked out
boorish players and coaches, and that did not have fundraisers requiring
kids to pressure every known living relative to buy candy bars and parents
to buy any unsold bars from the child's allotment.
From: Mark Seiden <>
Re: Older Than Dirt?  (Very Scientific)

there was recently a Metropolitan Diary in the nyt where a bus driver needed
to ascertain whether someone was in fact a senior or not (she hadn't brought
her card).

So he asked her the extremely sensitive test question:
"Who fired Julius LaRosa?"

(the answer, of course, only known by a senior:  "Arthur Godfrey".)
From: Robert.Reynolds@directory.Reed.EDU (Robert Reynolds)
Re: Older Than Dirt?  (Very Scientific)

I'm afraid that a few I can't remember are because the items are too recent.
But I'm not sure.
From: Ben Herman <>
Re: Older Than Dirt?  (Very Scientific)

Remember? ...Geesh I still OWN
	1 very old sprite bottle (with the nubbies) that came from a
machine, a box of old 45s, several books of partially filled S&H stamp
books, a very nice Hi-Fi, 2 Metal ice trays with levers, 1 package blue
flash cubes (and a camera that uses them... I also have one of those
replace the blue bulb as you go flashes.),  and not only do I have a skate
key but a working pair of 4 wheel skates.

Does that make me older AND dummer than dirt?
From: teach <>
Re: Did You Know  (the further adventures of suspicious "facts")

Some say the longest sentence isn't I am.  It is "I do."   ;)
From: (Harley Ferguson)
Re: Older Than Dirt?  (Very Scientific)

Another friend sent me the same or similar list last week. I added a few of
my own.

>From Dirt II in Japan. (who scored a perfect 25!)

Lucky Green (has gone to war); Wildroot Cream Oil (Charley)
>Margarine in squeezable plastic bags with organe dye capsules - Reason:
>The dairy lobby!
"Pluck your magic twanger, Froggy"  -- the sponsor was Buster Brown shoes<
right? What was the name of this Saturday morning show? -- First place I
ever heard "Jason and the Gloden Fleese"
"Coming in on a wing and a prayer".
10_ Saturday movies downtown -- in fact, movies downtown. Chickasha, Okla.
(pop 14,999 - never hit 15,000 - every time a baby was born, some guy left
town) had FIVE movie theaters on main street!-- and things we would rather
not remember -- no blacks on the main floor - balcony only, and none in the
Washita (the best theater).
25. Wash tub wringers -- and P&G LAUNDRY SOAP BARS

I think a good simple way to divide ages is BP / AP (Before Plastics /
After Plastics)

No wonder Canon is kicking me out at the end of the month.
From: "Mike Todd" <>
Re: Did You Know  (the further adventures of suspicious "facts")

> X-Lib-of-Cong-ISSN: 1098-7649
> X-
> [Okay, some of these are pure bull, a few are true, and a few are
> interesting.  Can you tell which is which?  -psl]

> No NFL team that plays its home games in a domed stadium has ever won a
> Superbowl.

Is this why we are tearing down the Kingdome and building a new statium for
From: "Will Payne" <>
Re: Did You Know  (the further adventures of suspicious "facts")

>Nutmeg is extremely poisonous if injected intravenously.
>[Just like air.  -psl]

Surely it's not poisonous, extremely deadly but not "poisonous".
From: "Stephen Nelson (personal)" <>
Re: What's Worse Than A Pyromaniac in a Blazer?

Lewis and Clark in an Explorer

Edmund Hillary in an Expedition

Mae West in a Contour

Ansel Adams in a Focus

O. J. Simpson in a Bel-Air

Ponce de Leon in a Biscayne

Newt Gingrich in an Integra

A French Maid in a Duster

And I would have put Little Anthony in my Imperial!!!
Re: What's Worse Than A Pyromaniac in a Blazer?

Which ones did you add?
[The good ones... both of them!  -psl]

Do you perchance know Marla Fibisch and Richard Adrianowitz?    When they
were married, they had a Horizon that was blue.  The license plate said

From: Daniel Steinberg <>
Re: What's Worse Than A Pyromaniac in a Blazer?

>From: TJ Johnson <>
>Cristopher Columbus in an Explorer?

Nina & Santa Maria in a Pinto?

Sea Biscuit in a Pacer?
(Napoleon in a Pacer?)

Two newlyweds gazing at a blue Horizon?

Bill Clinton in an Integra?

A crybaby in a Saab?

A gynecologist in a Volvo?

ok, ok, i'm reaching...
El Brujo de Amor <>
Re: What's Worse Than A Pyromaniac in a Blazer?

John F. Kennedy in a Lincoln?
From: Daniel Steinberg <>
Re: The Productivity Puzzle

>economists have long puzzled over the fact that, while computers have
>undoubtedly helped fuel the long economic boom, overall productivity has
>remained stagnant.
>Many sleepless nights spent in pondering this question have led me to the
>conclusion that Microsoft's Windows is to blame...

oh bullshit.

the reason is obvious.  people are spending the same amount of time working
on things, they just work differently now.  where it used to be you'd spend
a lot of time typing up a report, now you enter it quickly in a word
processor and spend the time formatting and getting the layout right.
where managers used to draw up graphs and charts for presentations, or hire
someone else to do it, now they have computer programs to do it, but they
spend all that time tweaking the colors or figuring out how to get the
shape they want.  where there used to be a huge industry in making machines
to do everything, now there's a huge industry in making computers to control
machines so there don't have to be as many different ones.  where there
used to be all-day meetings to hash out a problem, now there are email
discussions that last for weeks.

computers haven't greatly increased the amount of work that gets done, but
it's raised the ante on the quality of the work.  of course, in many cases
that 'quality' is wasted on intermediate products, like reports and
presentations and interminable 'communication'.  i think the reason we're
not more productive is that we're collectively 'polishing the turd', now
that computers have given us a compelling and entertaining Handi-Wipe to

From: Jo Rita Jordan <>
Re: The Productivity Puzzle]


I bet the same thing happened with the advent of the wheel. Guys tinkered
with getting that axle exactly centered instead of schlepping the bale of
faggots on a donkey. Early cars had flat tires every time they went out on
the crummy roads. Early airplanes were toys.

Semiconductor production makes up 10% of our GNP -- and probably about that
much of the gross *world* product. Without the computer, the economy would
be that much smaller. My own little business wouldn't exist without the
computer. Printing used to be limited to people with the money to get type
set (in lead! forget CompuGraphics!) -- now everyone can dash off a
nice-looking brochure and get it printed from disk on a color printer in
a couple of hours. The computer, directly or indirectly, has made the
current economic boom *possible*.

>>And until Windows gets replaced by a more stable operating system, we'll
still toss away billions of dollars each year in computer crashes.<<

Or people will move to Macs or Linux...

>>And every time a computer freezes up in the workplace, at least one
document is lost or damaged.<<

Only if you *really* don't know what you're doing!
From: Keith Bostic <>
Re: Wasn't he a pro wrestler or something?

Hmmm, the closest reference I could find was:

	John Wallace, Chairman of the Human Rights Commission in Fairfax,
	Virginia, thinks The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is "racist
	trash and anyone who teaches this book is a racist."

	By the way, Wallace is an administrative assistant at the - you
	guessed it - Mark Twain Intermediate School in Fairfax.

	      - Reason Magazine, August 1982

Sounds like it's gained a life of its own.

From: Jack Kolb <>
Re: QOTD - Sandburg, 9/17/99

>        Happiness
>I asked the professors who teach the meaning of life to tell me what is
>  happiness.
>And I went to famous executives who boss the work of thousands of men.
>They all shook their heads and gave me a smile as though I was trying
>  to fool with them
>And then one Sunday afternoon I wandered out along the Desplaines river
>And I saw a crowd of Hungarians under the trees with their women and
>  children and a keg of beer and an accordion.
>							- Carl Sandburg

Yeah, that Carl.  Always after booze and underage women, lured by bad music.

Jack Kolb
Dept. of English, UCLA
From: Daniel Steinberg <>
Re: Physics Bits #448

Physicists at Arizona State have now actually imaged these [inner] orbitals
for the first time and shown that they look just the drawings used in
quantum textbooks for decades.  Using a combination of x-ray diffraction
and electron microscopy [as well as liberal use of computer rendering] the
ASU scientists produced a 3D map of the orbitals of copper atoms and [though
they appear to be hand-drawn, the researchers insist on their mothers'
grave that they didn't fudge a thing.]

In other news, physicists at Lawrence Berkeley Lab have imaged a hydrogen
nucleus and discovered odd markings on the proton surface.  "There are
three dots, in a triangular orientation, above a curved line," says atomic
researcher Danforth Quark.  "It is too soon to draw conclusions, but it
appears that the drawings of happy atoms that were used on AEC posters in
the 50's and 60's were startingly accurate."

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